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 DOE Darth Bane vs Darth Tyranus

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Emperordmb
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DOE Darth Bane vs Darth Tyranus Empty
PostSubject: DOE Darth Bane vs Darth Tyranus   DOE Darth Bane vs Darth Tyranus EmptyTue Apr 01, 2014 1:50 am

seeing as my analysis of him vs Maul went so well, I'm gonna see if I can analyze a fight between him and Sidious's second apprentice.
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TheLaemOne
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PostSubject: Re: DOE Darth Bane vs Darth Tyranus   DOE Darth Bane vs Darth Tyranus EmptyThu Apr 03, 2014 9:12 pm

Bane wins this imo, in a pretty good fight.  I see Bane in between ROTJ Vader and Sidious.
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Emperordmb
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PostSubject: Re: DOE Darth Bane vs Darth Tyranus   DOE Darth Bane vs Darth Tyranus EmptyFri Apr 04, 2014 3:57 am

First off is their martial skills. Darth Bane was a primarily a master of Djem So, though he also maintained mastery over Juyo and Soresu, and maintained knowledge of how to defend against the other four forms. His skill was such that in POD he held an advantage over Kas'im, a master of all seven forms, in a lightsaber duel (until he whipped out Jar'kai that is). In ROT he caught the greatest duelist in the Jedi Order who was battle amped off guard with a maneuver that knocked her off of her feet. In DOE he was capable of besting Zannah in a lightsaber duel, who has more skill as a duelist than she is given credit for. Zannah casually outdueled Set Harth, who was believed to be the most dangerous man in the galaxy by a Jedi Master who was prominent on the Council of First Knowledge. His level of precision even impressed Zannah at one point. The fact that she could've easily exploited various openings in his technique marks her as an excellent duelist and makes Bane all the more impressive for beating her. His advantage and control over her in a duel is even more impressive considering her study of the defensive form, and them being familiar with eachother's fighting styles would've prolonged the fight. His lightsaber had a curved hilt that fit better into his palm and provided him with such unique angles to strike from that it was worthy of three battle meditation amped master duelists' wary and he even managed to almost kill the implied Makashi master (they base themselves on precision) based purely on the angle of his blade provided by the curved hilt. As a form V practitioner, he was known to make use of overpowering power blows, and this coupled with his weapon makes him a deadly weapon in combat. Power blows coming from unfamiliar angles would be more difficult to defend against and would thus make Bane's offense even more deadly. His unpredictability and ferocity was also backed up by his mastery of Juyo, which also allowed him to take full advantage of his emotions. His mastery of Soresu allowed him to capably defend against Kas'im when he initially fought faster than Bane expected until masterfully transitioning into an offensive position. He was also known to be familiar enough with unarmed combat that an armed Zannah was cautious of an unarmed Bane. Bane was armed with a curved hilt lightsaber, which allowed him to strike from unfamiliar angles and granted more power behind his blows.

Darth Tyranus was a confirmed and devoted master of Makashi, arguably taking it further than any of its other practitioners, though he maintained a basic enough knowledge in the other forms to train people in and know how to defend against. Tyranus was a very precise and elegant duelist, his moves flowing with fluidity and his footwork being solid. One on one lightsaber combat was something he geared himself towards, and he has defeated and held his own against some of the greatest duelists of his time, which includes his victories over Asajj Ventress, Obi-wan, Grievous, and his holding his own against Anakin, Windu, and Yoda (albeit only for a little while). Tyranus did manage to compensate for a number of Makashi's weaknesses. He was effective against blaster wielding opponents, as that is a skill of necessity in the era he lived in. He was also effective against multiple opponents, demonstrated by his fight against Ventress and Opress, and later Skywalker and Kenobi. His duel with Skywalker and Kenobi also demonstrates, that while he does not care for acrobatics, he will not hesitate to use them when absolutely necessary, and he showed a level of aptitude with hand to hand combat. The one weakness that Tyranus compensated for, but never completely overcame was the weakness against power blows inherent in Makashi. Tyranus was able to compensate for this by using precise redirection to deal with power blows with minimal expenditure, as shown against Savage Opress on Serenno, but power blows when applied relentlessly could overwhelm him, as shown by Opress over Toydaria, and more famously by Anakin over Coruscant. Tyranus was also armed with a curved hilt lightsaber, which allowed him to strike from unfamiliar angles and allowed for greater precision from the way it fit into his hand.

Both are highly skilled duelists, with different approaches. I can say right off the bat that their weapons are completely familiar to their opponent and thus will not catch them off guard or provide a distinct advantage aside from how they use it to bolster their own style. What we must take into account here is how they can attack and defend against their opponent. Tyranus's form, Makashi, isn't very kinetic, and he relies on it's precision and footwork. Given Bane's control over his emotions, as well as his mastery of Soresu and own precision (blocking raindrops in a downpour), I doubt this would be able to penetrate his defenses easily. Bane's offense on the other hand is composed of Djem So and Juyo. Bane's offensive is in other worlds, very unpredictable and bases itself around power blows. While Tyranus has for the most part, worked to compensate for Makashi's weakness against power blows, it's still a notable weakness, and one that can be exploited by a good enough opponent. Bane's skill as well as his unpredictability marks him as one who could overwhelm Tyranus's ability to defend against such an offense. Bane's offensive and defensive capabilities are simply more extreme than Tyranus's and he doesn't leave the openings Tyranus would normally take advantage of. Bane gets the edge in martial skill.

Now for their physical capabilities. Darth Bane was immensely strong physically, as a result of mining cortosis and training in Djem So. His strength was such that he was capable of ripping a durasteel door off it's hinges while drugged. He was no slouch in speed or agility however. In POD he was fast enough to appear to move invisibly to other Sith apprentices, and to land ten strikes per second against Kas'im. At the beginning of ROT he considers blocking torrents of rain to be an impossible task while using both his lightsaber and the force in a failed attempt to deflect the orbalisks falling from above. By DOE however he can capably deflect torrents of rain for ten minutes using only his lightsaber. This implies Bane's speed to have around tripled since POD, and such a speed is beyond the likes of what Grievous and Windu even have been shown to muster up. Through the technique known as inertia, his agility was also boosted even further than what an Ataru master, such as Quinlan Vos, was capable of attempting without hurting themselves. This showed itself in the stone prison when Bane dodged Zannah's lightsaber blades (who is also insanely fast) while drugged and when he dodged the majority of her tendrils. His ability to take pain and injury was practically inhuman. He survived being trapped in a sphere of his own lightning that was capable of disintegrating people, while the orbalisks expanded and burrowed into his body before exploding and releasing an incredibly deadly toxin. He also maintained the mental composure after having his arm severed by a tendril (a mere touch from one was far more painful than anything he had ever experienced, including the previously mentioned feat) to evoke the ritual of essence transfer.

Tyranus was in insanely good shape for his age, but he was well past his prime. Tyranus was strong enough to fend off some power duelists and to meet Anakin in bladelocks, though strength wasn't really his thing. Tyranus's most impressive physical stats were his speed and agility, his speed enabling him to fight Grievous and Windu, and hold out against Yoda for a short while, while his agility was something he was noted for, known to apply it with grace and precision. Tyranus's endurance was impacted by his age, however he compensates for this with the minimalist nature of his style.

I think it's obvious where this one is going. Bane's strength exceeds Tyranus's by a vast amount as does his ability to take injury and pain. Bane's endurance is also shown to be higher as well, being able to keep up a very high speed training regimen for ten minutes without his moves depleting in quality, which brings me into my next point; speed. Assuming Tyranus is in the same speed tier as Grievous and Windu, Bane is still a good speed tier ahead of them with his estimated 30 strikes per second exceeding Grievous's max of 20 strikes per second. As per agility, both are very agile, however Bane's mastery of inertia, as well as his ability to dodge Zannah's tendrils puts him above Tyranus there as well. Bane is Tyranus's physical superior in every way, and thus Bane takes the physical edge.

Now for their force abilities. Darth Bane wielded great telekinetic power, being able to collapse the Rakatan temple of the ancients, choke Qordis out, and move a boulder with a spell on it to keep it in place. Bane's aforementioned drastic increase in speed by the time of DOE is also indicative of superior force power, so he is likely capable of more than this level of telekinetic offense by this point. His telekinetic defense was also impressive as he was quickly able to throw up a shield (while drugged and caught off guard) against a powerful force push from Zannah, who has snapped the necks of Jedi, and blown up her cousin's arm. Bane also however had other powers at his disposal. He was also a powerful practitioner of force lightning, being able of reducing people to ash, as well as being more than capable of producing a powerful force storm. Bane also had an ability at his disposal where he could cocoon himself in force lightning, so that when his opponent struck it would explode and blast them back with force lightning. This would prove more than handy if Maul tries to land a lightsaber blow or a kick. Bane was also a practitioner of force drain, and had a gorge ability similar to Scourge's, which he was able to use to sustain himself after being poisoned by Githany.

Tyranus also demonstrated great telekinetic powers, by tooling the likes of Vos, Bulq, Ventress, and Kenobi. Tyranus was also capable of pushing Skywalker and Kenobi back a couple of feet with a force wave. His telekinesis was even respected by the high Jedi council. Tyranus was also a powerful practitioner of force lightning, his lightning being strong enough to kill some creatures in a single burst and, if Yoda's vision means anything, clones as well. His familiarity with energy based attacks was also coupled with a means for defending against it, his force deflection being effective enough to deflect his own bolts of lightning. He also was familiar with force stealth, though he was found out when being actively looked for.

Both are very powerful force wielders, so we must observe how their powers stack up against eachother. Both are potent telekinetics, however Bane's destruction of the Rakatan temple demonstrates more destructive potential, while his ability to hurl the immovable slab of Nadd before his prime demonstrates a greater ability to penetrate telekinetic defenses than tooling the likes of Obi-wan and the dark acolytes, whose telekinetic defenses could use some work. Their lightning has an obvious disparity in potency. Bane's lightning being capable of charring and ashing people is significantly superior to Tyranus's ability to merely kill things with his lightning. Bane has also shown more variety with his lightning, with his force storms, lightning cocoons, and even his tactical applications, such as blasting lightning at his opponent's feat to disrupt their footwork. While Tyranus could defend against lightning of his own caliber, I doubt Bane's would be deflected nearly as easily, especially if applied in a force storm. Then there's their other abilities to consider. Bane's drain is canceled out by the fact that Tyranus is one of the people who can explicitly defend against it, and his gorge amp is also reduced by the fact that Tyranus doesn't give into his emotions nearly as much as other Sith do. Tyranus's force stealth is likewise compromised for numerous reasons, including its difficulty to apply in combat, the fact that people actively looking for him have found him, and Bane's ability to dispel more potent stealth based powers. Ultimately Bane is stronger in the force and has a wider variety of combat applicable applications of his powers. As such I give Bane the edge as a force wielder.

Now to analyze the fight overall. Bane's control over his emotions allows him to keep a level head and thus not leave as many openings, and if by a fluke he did leave an opening, he could throw up a lightning cocoon, or tank the pain of a shiim strike and keep fighting. Tyranus's weapon is almost completely familiar to Bane and won't grant him an edge. Tyranus also lacks the force power needed to take Bane down. Bane on the other hand has a lot going for him in this fight. His drastically superior physical capabilities support his offense that already targets Tyranus's prime weakness. His endurance and ability to take pain and injury allows him to last longer than his opponent, and his strength in the force is superior as well. His tactics would also come into play here. His ability to assess his opponents strength's and weaknesses would allow him to recognize Tyranus's weakness against power blows, which he could exploit. His ability to make himself appear to be a lesser duelist, should he choose to use it, could play very well off of Tyranus's arrogance. His ability to use lightning tactically in ways such as firing blasts at the feet of opponents to disrupt their footwork would be quite effective on such a duelist as Tyranus for whom footwork is one of the pillars on which their style stands. I know I gave Bane the edge in every category, but when you look at the big picture, it starts to make a lot of sense. Tyranus has nothing to take Bane down with, while Bane has numerous ways of exploiting Tyranus's weaknesses. As such, I declare Darth Bane, the fabled Sith'ari, the winner!
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Lord of the Flies
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PostSubject: Re: DOE Darth Bane vs Darth Tyranus   DOE Darth Bane vs Darth Tyranus EmptyWed Jun 04, 2014 12:42 am

There's definitely the plausibility of question, but I think I'll still stick with Tyranus--He's infinitely underrated in the grand scheme of things. Obi-Wan as well, for that matter.
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