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 Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi

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PostSubject: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:26 pm

Two Soresu masters face off... who wins?

Round 1: DOE Zannah vs ROTS Kenobi
Round 2: DOE Zannah vs ANH Kenobi
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:28 pm

Hmmm, Id say Kenobi round 1 and Zannah round 2

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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:57 pm

I say Zannah wins both rounds... here me out.

In Round one it's important to look at their defensive capabilities as they are ultimately used in conjunction with their more offensive attacks (Ataru for Kenobi) (Sorcery for Zannah). A lot of people claim that Kenobi's defensive capabilities are higher than Zannah's, while I'd argue there isn't very much disparity between their defensive dueling capabilities. Based on accolades and focus, Obi-wan's application of Soresu is superior in raw skill, however this is largely balanced out by the more defensive nature of Zannah's weapon as well as her superior speed. Obi-wan was being overwhelmed by Grievous's speed in ROTS while Zannah was holding her own against Bane, who is faster than Grievous. Ultimately I feel there is little to no disparity in their defensive capabilities as duelists. As they are primarily defensive duelists I don't feel that Kenobi can penetrate Zannah's defenses with Ataru, and Zannah definitely can't penetrate Kenobi's defense by exploiting openings. As such they are at an impasse as duelists.

What will come into play here is their respective force abilities. In telekinesis, Zannah impresses me more given that she has snapped the necks of Jedi, disintegrated her cousin's arm, and Bane never overpowered her with TK despite his telekinetic prowess. Kenobi moving Durge's ship is impressive, however it doesn't quite compare to one shotting Jedi, and Kenobi's telekinetic defense isn't that advanced. I think what'll get him though is Zannah's illusions. Zannah's illusions are very potent, being able to bring a powerful Jedi Knight to his knees in terror instantly before her peak with this ability, and being able to casually oneshot a powerful dark Jedi into a coma. The people who have ever resisted her illusions were Darth Bane and arguably Darth Cognus, however Darth Bane has some of the best mental feats in the entire mythos, and Cognus's superadvanced precog and her force suppression would negate much of Zannah's hold over her. Obi-wan Kenobi, while no doubt being strong of mind, ultimately has too much that can be used against him in this manner. The three women he's loved have all died in his arms, his master was killed, his apprentice turned to the dark side and hated him, and his entire order was wiped out. With all of these negative experiences, Zannah's illusions would bring him down or at the very least open him up to an attack.

Round two is a different story however. After his spiritual training on Tatooine, I feel as if Obi-wan's mental state has advanced to the point to where he can overcome Zannah's illusions (albeit with difficulty) and defend against her TK, however his endurance is significantly lessened by his age while Zannah is still in her physical prime. Given that this battle will ultimately be a contest to see who can outlast the other, I feel confident in saying Zannah would win this one as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:26 pm

Well, I don't know much about Zannah, so forgive my ignorance. Can she use her illusions in the heat of battle? And, if so, can she do them as effectively? And, though Bane may be extremely fast in certain instances, how fast was he fighting Zannah? Also, I think Obi-Wan's mastery of Ataru and superior mastery of Soresu, will give her an edge over Zannah. But, again, I don't know much about Zannah.

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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:18 am

Excalibur2776 wrote:
Well, I don't know much about Zannah, so forgive my ignorance. Can she use her illusions in the heat of battle? And, if so, can she do them as effectively? And, though Bane may be extremely fast in certain instances, how fast was he fighting Zannah? Also, I think Obi-Wan's mastery of Ataru and superior mastery of Soresu, will give her an edge over Zannah. But, again, I don't know much about Zannah.
Zannah has used her illusions three times in battle IIRC, and two of those times meant instant defeat for her opponent. The first time she instantly brought Jedi Knight Zarro Xaj to his knees in terror (keep in mind she advanced this power further by DOE), and the second time she casually one-shotted Set Harth into a coma. The third time was against Darth Bane, and it initially had Bane down until Bane tore through them, however I reiterate the fact that his mental feats are top tier.

Bane was fighting Zannah very fast. The quote in DOE says that "he was faster than she ever could've imagined," and she fought Orbalisk Bane in ROT, referring it to be "as if he wielded a dozen blades at the same time."

I will concede that Kenobi is overall a better duelist than Zannah, but the way they stack up against eachother sets them up at an impasse. Neither have sufficient enough offense to break the other's defense, which is why I believe it will be decided by Zannah's superior force powers.
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:23 am

Emperordmb wrote:
Excalibur2776 wrote:
Well, I don't know much about Zannah, so forgive my ignorance. Can she use her illusions in the heat of battle? And, if so, can she do them as effectively? And, though Bane may be extremely fast in certain instances, how fast was he fighting Zannah? Also, I think Obi-Wan's mastery of Ataru and superior mastery of Soresu, will give her an edge over Zannah. But, again, I don't know much about Zannah.
Zannah has used her illusions three times in battle IIRC, and two of those times meant instant defeat for her opponent. The first time she instantly brought Jedi Knight Zarro Xaj to his knees in terror (keep in mind she advanced this power further by DOE), and the second time she casually one-shotted Set Harth into a coma.

Bane was fighting Zannah very fast. The quote in DOE says that "he was faster than she ever could've imagined," and she fought Orbalisk Bane in ROT, referring it to be "as if he wielded a dozen blades at the same time."

I will concede that Kenobi is overall a better duelist than Zannah, but the way they stack up against eachother sets them up at an impasse. Neither have sufficient enough offense to break the other's defense, which is why I believe it will be decided by Zannah's superior force powers.
Well, that's the thing. Does Set Harth or Zarro Xaj have a better force shield than Obi-Wan? I'm really on the edge that Zannah can use her illusions while Obi-Wan is attacking. I don't really know.
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:36 am

Excalibur2776 wrote:
Emperordmb wrote:
Excalibur2776 wrote:
Well, I don't know much about Zannah, so forgive my ignorance. Can she use her illusions in the heat of battle? And, if so, can she do them as effectively? And, though Bane may be extremely fast in certain instances, how fast was he fighting Zannah? Also, I think Obi-Wan's mastery of Ataru and superior mastery of Soresu, will give her an edge over Zannah. But, again, I don't know much about Zannah.
Zannah has used her illusions three times in battle IIRC, and two of those times meant instant defeat for her opponent. The first time she instantly brought Jedi Knight Zarro Xaj to his knees in terror (keep in mind she advanced this power further by DOE), and the second time she casually one-shotted Set Harth into a coma.

Bane was fighting Zannah very fast. The quote in DOE says that "he was faster than she ever could've imagined," and she fought Orbalisk Bane in ROT, referring it to be "as if he wielded a dozen blades at the same time."

I will concede that Kenobi is overall a better duelist than Zannah, but the way they stack up against eachother sets them up at an impasse. Neither have sufficient enough offense to break the other's defense, which is why I believe it will be decided by Zannah's superior force powers.
Well, that's the thing. Does Set Harth or Zarro Xaj have a better force shield than Obi-Wan? I'm really on the edge that Zannah can use her illusions while Obi-Wan is attacking. I don't really know.
It's not a matter of force shield per se, it's a matter of mental fortitude. Keep in mind that Zannah instantly took out Xaj and Harth, the former being before the height of her powers and the latter being a more casual attack. Neither of those attacks are really at the highest extent she can apply them at. Obi-wan has some good mental fortitude, but all of his past experiences would overwhelm him if Zannah applied her illusions at the same intensity as she applied the ones on Bane. She couldn't apply them against Xaj while he was attacking, but this was because she wasn't as advanced in ROT as she was in DOE, and still needed to use hand gestures at this point. Even then she only needed him to let up for a fraction of a second. Harth she managed to nail while he was attacking her, and she felt confident enough in her abilities to apply her illusions while Bane was attacking her. Kenobi's good, but Zannah's duel where she was losing but holding her own against Bane proves that she could defend against anything less than that caliber of offense. Kenobi's Ataru simply doesn't have what it takes to breach her Soresu.
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:38 am

Emperordmb wrote:
Excalibur2776 wrote:
Emperordmb wrote:
Excalibur2776 wrote:
Well, I don't know much about Zannah, so forgive my ignorance. Can she use her illusions in the heat of battle? And, if so, can she do them as effectively? And, though Bane may be extremely fast in certain instances, how fast was he fighting Zannah? Also, I think Obi-Wan's mastery of Ataru and superior mastery of Soresu, will give her an edge over Zannah. But, again, I don't know much about Zannah.
Zannah has used her illusions three times in battle IIRC, and two of those times meant instant defeat for her opponent. The first time she instantly brought Jedi Knight Zarro Xaj to his knees in terror (keep in mind she advanced this power further by DOE), and the second time she casually one-shotted Set Harth into a coma.

Bane was fighting Zannah very fast. The quote in DOE says that "he was faster than she ever could've imagined," and she fought Orbalisk Bane in ROT, referring it to be "as if he wielded a dozen blades at the same time."

I will concede that Kenobi is overall a better duelist than Zannah, but the way they stack up against eachother sets them up at an impasse. Neither have sufficient enough offense to break the other's defense, which is why I believe it will be decided by Zannah's superior force powers.
Well, that's the thing. Does Set Harth or Zarro Xaj have a better force shield than Obi-Wan? I'm really on the edge that Zannah can use her illusions while Obi-Wan is attacking. I don't really know.
It's not a matter of force shield per se, it's a matter of mental fortitude. Keep in mind that Zannah instantly took out Xaj and Harth, the former being before the height of her powers and the latter being a more casual attack. Neither of those attacks are really at the highest extent she can apply them at. Obi-wan has some good mental fortitude, but all of his past experiences would overwhelm him if Zannah applied her illusions at the same intensity as she applied the ones on Bane. She couldn't apply them against Xaj while he was attacking, but this was because she wasn't as advanced in ROT as she was in DOE, and still needed to use hand gestures at this point. Even then she only needed him to let up for a fraction of a second. Harth she managed to nail while he was attacking her, and she felt confident enough in her abilities to apply her illusions while Bane was attacking her. Kenobi's good, but Zannah's duel where she was losing but holding her own against Bane proves that she could defend against anything less than that caliber of offense. Kenobi's Ataru simply doesn't have what it takes to breach her Soresu.

I hate the feeling when you think someone is wrong but you cant refute what they say. Damnit.
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 am

It's simple... they place each other at an impasse as duelists, and Zannah's force abilities have what it takes to give her the victory.
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:36 pm

kenobi takes both....
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:50 am

I think I now have conclusive proof (if I didn't already before) that Zannah's illusions would fuck him up:


"I still can't believe the Jedi Order is gone- and the Republic, corrupted and in the hands of Palpatine. And Anakin, corrupted as well. The holovids I saw of him slaughtering Jedi younglings in the Temple still haunt my dreams... and shatter my heart into pieces, over and over again
....
I'll be far from anywhere, and alone, with nothing but my regrets to keep me company. If only there were a place to hide from those."-Star Wars: Kenobi
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:35 am

Isn't that non-canon?

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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:52 am

What do you mean?
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:56 am

That book is you took the quote from is now non-canon correct? All this is so freaking confusing...

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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:58 am

Apparently there's different continuities now or something.
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:01 pm

I really don't want SW to become like fucking Batman or Spider-man, etc with fucking parallel universes or some shit...

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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:04 pm

From what I gathered, this could mean two different things.

1. There are two continuities, which I will refer to Disney Continuity, and Legends Continuity.

2. The EU is in a state between Canon and Non-Canon where you can still count it until they contradict it.

Either way, I'm going to continue on as normal until episode 7 comes out.
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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:07 pm

Whatever, I'm considering the EU non-canon. But this what I was always scared of, all this complicated ass parallel universe SHIT

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PostSubject: Re: Darth Zannah vs Obi-wan Kenobi   Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:55 am

Zannah may take the second round, but she's still not as capable as the legendary Jedi General at his peak.
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